| Author | Several pictures that may need deletion |
Joseph Sowards
Member
Posts: 1
Joined: 27.04.07
 | | Posted on 27-04-2007 18:46 | |
|
http://www.millionmasterpiece.com/profile-383198
http://www.millionmasterpiece.com/profile-488715
http://www.millionmasterpiece.com/profile-471115
http://www.millionmasterpiece.com/profile-451920
http://www.millionmasterpiece.com/profile-395945
http://www.millionmasterpiece.com/profile-386353
http://www.millionmasterpiece.com/profile-487216
http://www.millionmasterpiece.com/profile-458474
http://www.millionmasterpiece.com/profile-378360
http://www.millionmasterpiece.com/profile-477674
*edit - more below*
http://www.millionmasterpiece.com/profile-623223
Edited by P H on 01-05-2007 11:42 |
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
P H
Super Administrator
Posts: 213
Joined: 07.09.06
 | | Posted on 01-05-2007 11:42 | |
|
Hi Joseph.
A lot of the images you have proposed above are similar to ones that have been nominated in earlier threads.
I know that some find such images offensive for different reasons, could be due to personal taste or from a desire to censor the image from the view of others. And some support them as worthwhile contributions to the artistic community, coming from the viewpoint that they represent a common theme that is evident in many aspects of life, in different cultures, and for different reasons.
You haven't said why you feel that they need to be deleted. Stimulating debate by drawing attention to certain squares is a good starting point, but you also have the opportunity to use this forum to air your opinion, and support why you feel that the above images should be reviewed for deletion.
With over 24,000 members of the OMM so far there are plenty of opinions about this matter, from all angles. There are plenty of opinions on censorship so far in the 'deletion' forum, in other threads, and every opinion given so far has enriched the discussion. So please post again, and let us know more.
I was expecting this forum to get busier as the number of OMM contributors climbed, but it seems to have slowed down. It seems to have been a while since there was an active thread down here 
On a side note, I checked back to a number of previous images nominated here in the forum, and found that most profiles are still present, albeit with alterations to some images. Perhaps the key is to get the artists in question involved in the discussion, too.
Anyone else here?
Pip.
... Also, I edited the above post to make the links clickable, just in case you were wondering.
|
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
Alicia Thompson
Super Administrator
Posts: 215
Joined: 23.09.06
 | | Posted on 07-05-2007 01:01 | |
|
I've been lurking back here, Pip.
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with images of genetalia, on the condition that they're marked as mature images, because they do contain content that might irk younger kids.
My view on the more questionable material on the site is that this artwork is a snapshot of the world that we live in, and most people, if not all, think about their genitalia or the genitalia of others, whether it be in jest as a childish joke or because they really, really like pornography. The first image you linked to noticed the similarity in shape between his local coal refineries and the male genitalia, and I don't think that's a bad analogy at all. (Though, I'm biased, coming from newcastle, Australia, where every public sculpture and tower manages to make itself look like a penis- I kid you not) |
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
Mark Olson
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: 30.03.07
 | | Posted on 07-05-2007 22:09 | |
|
| my opinion is that we should not delete anybody's artwork. perhaps delete the empty squares so other people can use them -- but once something has been drawn let's leave it be. i don't think we want to go down the road of censorship or telling other people what is considered valid artistic expression and what is not. |
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
Dee Dee
Member
Posts: 25
Joined: 04.05.07
 | | Posted on 10-05-2007 17:15 | |
|
Yes is can be offencive but what is art with out disagreement. Everyone has a diffrent veiw on things and i think thats what makes art so cool. That you can do something and have some like it and others really hate it. what other way of expression can you express what ever you would like and have so many diffrent reactions. I think that its great that people are sturing things up. I dont think they should be deleted. If thats what they want to express I say let them do it.  |
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
Alex Holt
Member
Posts: 77
Joined: 04.12.06
 | | Posted on 14-05-2007 11:12 | |
|
| I must admit, I suspect most of these pictures are just drawn out of a slightly immature desire to be contraversial and annoy people - however, at the end of the day, although I would personally prefer slightly more constructive works, they are still a reflection of modern society, and even if not intended as such, do highlight the aspect of modern culture and its taboos which cause people to rebel. I must admit however that I would prefer if we had some more sophisticated works too on the same subject to get a fuller range of abilities rather than the simplistic line drawings these people seem to go for. |
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
Paula Badger
Member
Posts: 6
Joined: 21.05.07
 | | Posted on 21-05-2007 10:57 | |
|
| My art work as a criminologist is muted to show how a primitive image instead of fine detailed scientific one is to replicate in my mind with the tools on the drawing board Myra Hindley's so called map to find Keith. It is art pure and simple. She drew it for an audience to fit this primitive impression of a journey she made, the audience were to believe her 'damaged'. My art makes the case of deliberate art to deceive as what the eye see it is misled by saying it is a daffodil when it is a pansy for example. One sees what the artist draws your attention to.. My art may seem Christian in the signs, it is not. They are either tombstones in her mind as places of interest, and connotative of the book that was a prayer book, could have been a railway book, but it was not. Hence the cross is x marks the spot, is indicative of ancestors in Monastic order that walked the land, and of the Cotton Famine leading to deaths where mill workers starved. So it is a pathway of landscape of lies as I call it. There is a book of that name. |
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
Rizza Gallardo
Member
Posts: 1
Joined: 02.10.06
 | | Posted on 24-05-2007 08:19 | |
|
I think 487216 is ok
Edited by P H on 25-05-2007 09:14 |
|
| Author | RE: censorship? |
Melissa R Bucholz
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 23.01.07
 | | Posted on 14-06-2007 22:50 | |
|
Yes, there should be censorship. This masterpiece is going to be viewed by minors as well and drawings of genitalia, breasts, swear words, and illegal substances are inappropriate. This subject shouldn't even be up for debate. It's common sense. Come on people.
The moderators also need to agree on their level of disgression. Look at all of the malicious postings still up after being reported multiple times. If this gets premiered with all the inappropriate images, I will be embarassed to be a part of it. |
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
P H
Super Administrator
Posts: 213
Joined: 07.09.06
| | Posted on 15-06-2007 10:08 | |
|
Melissa R Bucholz wrote:
Yes, there should be censorship. This masterpiece is going to be viewed by minors as well and drawings of genitalia, breasts, swear words, and illegal substances are inappropriate. This subject shouldn't even be up for debate. It's common sense. Come on people.
The moderators also need to agree on their level of disgression. Look at all of the malicious postings still up after being reported multiple times. If this gets premiered with all the inappropriate images, I will be embarassed to be a part of it.
I think that the fact that this subject is up for debate is a credit to the open nature of the project as a whole. Advocating censorship at the same time as suppressing debate is contrary to the principles on which the success of the OMM depends, I feel. The freedom to use not only this forum, but your image and profile etc to express whatever you choose, is an important opportunity to air your views about anything. It is just as important to recognise that everybody shares this project equally and it is a worthwhile opportunity to share in others opinion and expression.
Censorship, I feel, denies others a chance for learning and for forming their own opinions. I do agree with censorship in certain areas/issues, but it must be used sensibly.
You are right to remark that minors require a degree of protection, and whilst I feel that this should generally be the responsibility of the parents it is not their sole responsibility, it should be a social/community responsibility also. But this can only go so far. The 'child friendly' filter that prevents some images being displayed online addresses this in a sensible way inasmuch as the point of censorship is at the viewer and not the viewed image. denying everybody access to an image to protect a minority I think is wrong.
When the OMM is exhibited then, like any other exhibition, it will be the choice of individuals to decide whether they see it for themselves, and the choice for those responsible for minors if they allow them to view it or not. Having that choice is what matters.
I am sure the OMM will be around, in some form or other, far beyond my life-time. The type of censorship that you advocate would deny countless others a great insight into this project (our global snapshot) in the future as well as those viewing just now.
I am glad that I am part of this project, and you Melissa, and all the other images here too. Regardless of my own opinion of their merit or message, I am glad they are all here.
Pip. |
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
Alex Holt
Member
Posts: 77
Joined: 04.12.06
| | Posted on 15-06-2007 10:33 | |
|
Hmmm... has been quite a while since I've posted on this site...Anyway...
Much as there is a need to protect younger people from the less savoury aspects of society, to be entirely honest there isn't a great deal here that is going to corrupt children from what I've seen.
One possible suggestion is that, presuming the final thing will be displayed vertically, perhaps the less child friendly could be at 'top shelf level' - ie out of childrens easy range of vision. That should pretty much allow the images to stay without exposing them to children.
However, I must agree with Pip - you cannot censor everything for the sake of a small group, much as some of those things may be vile (and I'm sure there are people out there who would draw far worse things than those you have listed there) |
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
Sam Law
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: 18.01.07
 | | Posted on 16-06-2007 17:49 | |
|
Melissa R Bucholz wrote:
Yes, there should be censorship. This masterpiece is going to be viewed by minors as well and drawings of genitalia, breasts, swear words, and illegal substances are inappropriate. This subject shouldn't even be up for debate. It's common sense. Come on people.
Alex Holt wrote:
Much as there is a need to protect younger people from the less savoury aspects of society, to be entirely honest there isn't a great deal here that is going to corrupt children from what I've seen.
Well, I'd like to throw my thoughts into the mix, if possible.
How many people here saw 'watership down' as a kid, or read the book? I remember the first film I ever saw was 'The Lion King'. And yes, I'll admit that my choices are not very strong for the reason that they are about anthrophomorphic creatures, BUT they still had some quite disturbing scenes in them. Especially Watership Down. What I'm saying is that children should not be censored in anyway, shape or form. Especially in an art exhibit!
I'm sure everyone here who watched Watership Down has grown up to have a normal life (inso far as one can), and I know that the Lion King hasn't sent me on a murderous rampage anytime recently.
What harm will seeing a crude drawing of a penis do to anyone? Or swear words? Out of context these two things are purely innocent things. Its our individual conceptual schemes (the things, emotions and ideas) that you connect to something which gives it negative connotations. But by itself, what will a child seeing a picture of a penis actually do to it? Make it a sex maniac? Or educate it about what sex is? How?
I'm sorry, and I know I can hear the screams of a thousand parents wishing I never have children, but its just how I feel. A mall boy can just look in his trousers to see a real penis, and listen to the people on their streets to hear swearing. So won't covering these things up cause a more damaging effect?
Ok, so I'm going a bit psychological, and I've no doubt that theres qualified psychologists who're willing to argue against me, but if we're censoring these things, aren't we teaching children that there is something inherently degrading or wrong with such things? |
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
Jim
Super Administrator
Posts: 159
Joined: 30.11.06
 | | Posted on 25-06-2007 05:57 | |
|
| Perhaps we are... perhaps there aren't just two choices, to censor or not to censor may not be the question. What if one were to censor with an explination? I'm not saying that seeing violence is going to cause you to be overtly violent, but any amount affects people. If you live in an abusive household, and you do nothing but play violent games and watch violent movies, I'd be a little worried for how you turn out. But if you live in a household with such... negative things, then you won't be prepared when you experience violence in reality. So maybe the answer is in the middle, since children are growing, and they absorb from material than more matured people, perhaps parents should limit the amount of things like violence in movies. For example, A parent could let their child watch lion king, and then explain to the child about death and negative things using examples from the movie. Now the child knows that violence and betrayal are bad things and have negative effects on other people. If one were to overdo it before the child is ready, he may view the violence as very commonplace, and think to himself that the effects "really aren't that bad." So as the child grows, you gradually allow him more experience with the negative material, so he understands it, but doesn't underestimate it. This means you should avoid showing violent images that don't teach a lesson, but are just senseless forms of entertainmnent. I'm not saying adults shouldn't watch senselessly violent movies, but don't subject children to them, because to a child, everything is a teaching tool. There isn't as clear a definition between learning and entertainment as there is with more matured people. Now I know that there is a lot more to go over, and this isn't all about violence, but I thought I should get some of my two cents in.... so there you have it... 1/2 cent, just so I have 1 1/2 cents left in my pocket, if I need it later. |
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
TeachMe-DT
Member
Posts: 51
Joined: 10.06.07
 | | Posted on 26-06-2007 19:35 | |
|
http://www.millionmasterpiece.com/profile-613554&vote=minus' target='_blank'>http://www.millionmasterpiece.com/profile-613554&vote=minus
dont know if this has been mentioned but this person now has a minus mark...
Edited by TeachMe-DT on 26-06-2007 19:36 |
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
Lisa Stevens
Super Administrator
Posts: 62
Joined: 23.07.06
 | | Posted on 27-06-2007 22:05 | |
|
No...sorry, I don't get it...what are the pictures of? I don't understand?
This debate still going on
I've seen far worse at the Tate Modern and the toilet walls at school...if you think children don't see this sort of image in everyday life then you are kidding yourselves.
And you might like to check out the ages of some of these artists too! |
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
MtlAngelus
Member
Posts: 9
Joined: 20.09.06
 | | Posted on 01-08-2007 11:14 | |
|
| I say keep them, they amuse me. |
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
Alex Holt
Member
Posts: 77
Joined: 04.12.06
| | Posted on 06-08-2007 20:48 | |
|
I may be dredging up this conversation slightly, but going back to Sam's point:
I agree with you, this may sound slightly bizarre, but I've long held the view that watching Animals of Farthing Wood as a child gave me a clearer understanding of death as a child than some child that sits there playing some generic shoot-em-up game constantly. There is certainly a difference between the image itself and what it portrays. I'll use sex as an example - both classical statues and page 3 of the Sun or a similar paper both contain nudity - would you show your child the paper? I should hope not. Would you you take your child to a museum so they can see these statues? I should hope so.
What you must bear in mind is that children are not sexual beings, and thus they should not be exposed to things which give them the impression that they should be. Similarly however, you should not try to preserve their innocence to the point of extreme naivity relative to their age - its a fine line that must be trodden.
Also, bear in mind that just because somethign is everywhere it doesn't mean it should be - you shouldn't swear around children because all you are doing is imposing your own flaws onto them - its not the words themselves that do the damage, its how you use them. |
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
Alicia Thompson
Super Administrator
Posts: 215
Joined: 23.09.06
| | Posted on 08-08-2007 19:03 | |
|
For the website as it is at the moment, That's what the child friendly check box is for. If something isn't child friendly, and it hasn't been marked as such (is there a way for adult users to see this?) there's always the "report this to a moderator" icon that we should use as a way to help out.
When it comes to actual printing, we'll see what happens, but don't think that it's not being taken seriously. As far as I know, there's currently only two people working through the queue of marked artworks for deletion, because even thougb I'm an admin here, I don't have powers that go beyond the forums (that I'm aware of. eek.)
Melissa: may I ask which malicious postings are still up after compaints that the mods just haven't addressed yet? discussing them here might help them get resolved.
This is certainly not going to be the first time something with nudity or not "child friendly" things would be in an art gallery. Most of my favorite artists had an erotic element to them. heck, even Picasso did. Art gallerys aren't supposed to keep a G rating just in case someone doesn't want to see it. If you have small children, I believe it's your responsibility to ask what's showing before going and determining whether or not it's suitable for children. The same with a website, and that's what child markings are for, and that's also what responsible parents are there for. But it's very much in my belief that children should have their web activities monitered by parents. |
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
Juhi Chitravanshi
Member
Posts: 3
Joined: 02.10.06
 | | Posted on 15-11-2007 11:46 | |
|
What harm will seeing a crude drawing of a penis do to anyone? Or swear words? Out of context these two things are purely innocent things. Its our individual conceptual schemes (the things, emotions and ideas) that you connect to something which gives it negative connotations. But by itself, what will a child seeing a picture of a penis actually do to it? Make it a sex maniac? Or educate it about what sex is? How?
?
i wish more people, including myself, thought along these lines...how true it is.
although, completing the circle is the fact that had these topics not been 'considered taboo or degrading, those 'immature' people wouldnt probably have the satisfaction out of drawing about it in the first place...
still, until all of the society comes to think that openly, some censorship would be needed. although, in a project as vast as this, i think openness and freedom of expression should be put slightly ahead of social censorship. just my thought.
Edited by Juhi Chitravanshi on 15-11-2007 11:52 |
|
| Author | RE: Several pictures that may need deletion |
Mia
Member
Posts: 2
Joined: 03.12.07
 | | Posted on 16-12-2007 08:46 | |
|
te omm is supposed to show an image of our society/of the world and NOTHING should be deleted, because all of that is out there, is part of the society and of the world !!!
if you want to create an authentic image of what is there you can not or should not censor anything, because that makes it less authentic !!!!
the world just isn't full of high quality art and full of super important messages everywhere, the world consist of banality, trivia, jokes and randomness to a big part.
to show all of that, to let everyone contribute anything to this image we are all creating is what makes the omm so interesting and so one-of-a-kind !!!!
to delete something would destroy part of what is so interesting and authentic about this whole project !
an also: art can be anything and has to be challenging and provokative (and even banal) from time to time !!!! |
|
